[featured-video-plus width=770]

 

What you’ll hear in this episode

• Former Rep. Mac Thornberry’s career serving in Congress and his work to reform the DoD
• The relationship between the private sector of innovators and the warfighters who need access to that technology
• Contemporary threats to national security and how the DoD has evolved to address them

Growing up on a ranch in the Texas Panhandle where there were “more cattle than people,” Former Congressman Mac Thornberry developed an interest in politics at a young age when he realized that the decisions politicians were making in DC affected his life thousands of miles away. He went straight from “reading the Hardy Boys to books about World War II,” and went on to study history and obtain his law degree.

Despite admitting that “cattle are a lot more predictable and pleasant to deal with” than politicians, Thornberry left Texas to become a staffer in DC, eventually returning to his family ranch and running for office. Former Congressman Thornberry served as the US Representative for Texas’ 13th Congressional district from 1995 until he retired in 2021.

Thornberry’s legacy as a champion of domestic defense innovation and his reputation as one of Congress’ “most thoughtful members on national and domestic security issues” was earned over his long career of prioritizing what he believes is the government’s most important job – to defend the country.

During his time in office he identified that the speed of technological advancement and change in the world didn’t match the Department of Defense’s existing processes and methods – or the new and unique threats to national security that modern technology poses. Thornberry worked to reform the acquisition process and encouraged the DoD to be more open to innovation and “friendlier to do business with.” He facilitated the valuable intersection between the private sector that creates cutting-edge technology and the defense department that can get those products and services into the hands of warfighters as quickly as possible.

Hearkening back to his realization as a young boy on the ranch, Congressman Thornberry wants Americans to understand the relationship between the defense department and the quality of their daily life, explaining that “everything in our country ultimately rests on the foundation of a strong national defense.”

Listen to the full episode to learn more about the seeds of defense innovation that Thornberry has planted and why Texas – and the city of Austin specifically – provides the perfect climate for those seeds to flourish.

Be sure to like and subscribe so that you don’t miss out on the next conversation, and check out previous episodes of From Tanks to Teleportation!

From Tanks to Teleportation is a founding_media podcast created in partnership with the Department of Defense and the Defense Innovation Unit.

Hosts: Dan Dillard, founding_media

Zach Walker, Defense Innovation Unit

Guest: Former Rep. William “Mac” Thornberry

Transcript:

this is a founding media podcast if welcome to from tanks to teleportation a podcast to restore the intersection of technology business and national security with the leaders of this incineration unit which is part of the U. S. department of defense I’m your host Dan Dillard and as always I’m joined by my co host Zach Walker the Texas lead for the D. I. U. today we’re joined by congressman mac Thornberry he served in Washington as a US representative for Texas thirteenth congressional district since nineteen ninety five in that time he spent four years as chair of the house Armed Services Committee as chair he spearheaded a major DOD acquisition reform project that has received bipartisan support before his time in Washington Thornberry worked on his family ranch with his brothers and practiced law in Amarillo Texas let’s jump into our exciting conversation about the legislative work he’s done this made organizations like the D. I. U. possible congressman Thornberry thank you so much for being with us today I wanna say that grew up in the animal area looks on call Herford which I’m sure you’re familiar with most who don’t know this named after the cal in the Esther more cattle than people by a good amount I’m so excited to chat with someone from that area you should about your backstory for a bit from rancher to congressman what was the motivation of lead you down this path sure well thanks for having me and by the way in my congressional district there still more cattle than people and we like it that way I’d like to start with a little bit of your backstory %HESITATION because from what I’ve read is from rancher congressman so I wanted to understand what the motivation was fruit for you to move from being a rancher all the way up to congressman so would you share a little bit about your backstory well my family still thinks I’m very strange for what I’ve done over the past twenty six years but none of my family’s ever been involved in politics before but somehow as I was growing up spending a lot of time with my grandfather run around in the pick up doing stuff I understood that people %HESITATION in Washington DC were making decisions that affected us seven miles down a dirt road outside a town of two thousand people and and so %HESITATION again as a kid I started paying attention to politics and issues and so forth and then it it it kind of grew from there so %HESITATION F. after law school I moved to Washington as a staff and got a job as a staff or just to try to learn my way around %HESITATION and and then moved back home to the Amarillo area practice law in the cattle business with my brothers and that’s what I was doing when I ran for office the lessons learned between being a rancher and and and being in Congress %HESITATION I’m I’m sure there’s lots of lessons on the other hand cattle or a lot more %HESITATION predictable and in many ways pleasant to deal with then a lot of folks you meet and and politics especially these days but but I think the the key lesson again for me was %HESITATION decisions that are made that seem remote that %HESITATION you know just don’t seem that related to your daily life do have consequences even if you’re out on a cattle ranch if you’re in a suburb of city somewhere there are there are real consequences to the decisions that government makes for us and so everybody doesn’t have to run for office but everybody has to pay attention and and bowed and be involved congressman Thornberry I just want to say it’s a tremendous honor to have you on our show today so you turn the house Armed Services Committee from twenty fifteen to twenty nineteen and have to say first Texan to ever do that which is really wonderful could you talk a bit about some of your greatest accomplishments in that capacity on ask well the thing about serving in Congress or any legislative body is that no one accomplishes anything on their own %HESITATION you cannot get something even out of the house without convincing two hundred seventeen other people to agree with you and then you got to get through the Senate obviously in the White House and so forth so I don’t think there really is such a thing as individual accomplishments when it comes to two legislative bodies for for me as as chairman %HESITATION I I I tried to guide the committee focusing I guess in two big areas are are one is because of the reductions in defense spending we were having a reading this crisis and we had to turn that around and and and so just top line dollars as well as where those dollars were spent for training and maintenance and kind of those basic things that don’t sound very sexy we’re a we’re a big thing the other thing that I started working on before I was chairman was trying to help streamline %HESITATION in and and make friendlier D. O. O. D. for doing business with %HESITATION because the the way the world was changing the speed with which the world was changing the way the speed with which technology was changing did not fit nineteen fifties style bureaucracies and so acquisition reform and and trying to help the department be more innovative and a friendlier place for innovation was it was something else that I had thought was important and frankly it’s it’s continuing even as I’m ranking member %HESITATION that does both of those things had been bipartisan and so German Smith Adam Smith and I are continue to work on a lot of these issues in both categories there’s typically a thread that takes us from one interest unlocked another to the next step %HESITATION and I noticed one thing that just again growing up in the panhandle and just the friendliness of communication that we have as a as a culture up there I can see how that translates in %HESITATION twenty twenty I’m in the almanac of American politics as you are one of Congress radius and most thoughtful members on nationals and domestic issues security issues so I’m curious where your appetite from sick for security issues can crop I don’t know at it I as a as a kid as I was mentioning I went pretty much directly from reading the hardy Boyz in two World War two and and so I have been very interested in national security from a very early age %HESITATION I had an uncle and a couple of great uncles I guess who participated more work to do but nobody in my family is really part of part of the military but but but again I. I. I have been incredibly fortunate when I was a staffer on the hill I got to do defense issues my first priority after all was elected to Congress was to be on the Armed Services Committee and now I will complete twenty six years there as well as roughly fourteen on the intelligence committee so I have been able to work in the field number that I think number one is the most important thing government does and that is to defend the country but also we’re really my passion and I’m just incredibly lucky thanks for any mission acquisition performance certainly he’s been a tremendous champion of DOD acquisition reform trying to get technology that warfighters need as quickly to them as as humanly possible in your experience you seem all of these do you do you envision organizations come and go what is your perspective on all of these different efforts and why did they even need to exist at all well %HESITATION as as as I mentioned before the this the acquisition system that had been set up did not meet the need %HESITATION either up the pace of technological change or the myriad of threats and and the way that they are changing and and so we had to do so something different N. M. and in my view is been %HESITATION we need to do try to change the big acquisition system but on the other hand because the need is so urgent we need to create some other entities as workarounds if you will or other authorities as workarounds so that we could you know let a bunch of flowers bloom see what worked but but also meet the need of the moment because changing the big acquisition system inevitably takes time we can route all the laws we want to and DOD will eventually get the regulations to implement those laws but you’re still dealing with culture and the way people have learned how to %HESITATION to manager program or or or to to %HESITATION it invest in new technology so so cultural change takes time and I think you are seeing now some change is significant change take place within the department because the department leadership is also on the same page about to speeding up innovation and getting the best technology our country can produce into the hands of the warfighter faster but in in addition we’ve had %HESITATION the strategic capabilities office you know D. are you was was part of that and not as some %HESITATION some additional authorities that that don’t go through the whole regulatory process that have been brought online and you’re seeing those used more more so what I think it’s promising but it’s a kind of thing you’re not going to solve it with one you know bill or one madi whack you got this keep accurate inaccurate and after over your long career as a congressman I read where you’ve been involved in a number of things from leading and creating the national nuclear security administration to improving the nuclear weapons complex to even establishing the the department of homeland security actually before nine eleven happened so I’m just curious what concerns you were seen at that time and how that’s changed over time well before nine eleven you could see some of these terrorist type incidents occur in them in the Middle East I I moved to Washington and got a job as a staffer doing defense just before the Beirut bombing occurred in %HESITATION in in Lebanon and and so that again it it didn’t doesn’t take a genius to figure out that we can’t be isolated or insulated from those events are forever and that they were going to come home to us but but the other thing to give credit where credit is due there was a commission that looked at future security needs and one of their recommendations was we’ve got all of this scattered approach to defend our homeland and it needs to be brought together and %HESITATION into one coherent department so I then and often I borrow ideas from smart people and and try to generate some momentum that can help them be enacted and obviously after nine eleven lots of folks and while we better do something and and so it is still what needs the it took some time but when President Bush decided we needed to do it it it it took place speaking of momentum in twenty seventeen you said that you want to see more of the defense innovation unit how we were going to meet our mission of course or you can visit the Austin office and in twenty eighteen and it was a similar message so a couple years later I would love to get your thoughts on on what day is doing right really what else should we focus on your what’s the next couple of years hold for for desensitization yeah I I think a D. are you is is getting its legs under it and developing momentum %HESITATION in in a positive way you know D. are you was was begun by secretary ash Carter and and there was there were some criticism that this was just ashes kind of pet project and named would fade away when he left but I I think that having that the central link between %HESITATION many of our top innovators in the country and DOD has proven valuable and of in and will continue to be valuable for for some time as as you know one of the big challenges for do you are you are a lot of these interactions that occur with with the with the private sector is how do you take a good idea that is developed and get it into a program of record so that it does get into the hands of the war fighters you know there there’s something that’s called the valley of death and it’s true not just with programs D. I. U. uses but that some of the small business innovation programs and and a number of things it is so it’s still it’s still a challenge there are still challenges out there but I think the I. you place a very valuable role in facilitating that inter action of the with much of of the civilian sector and department of defense since we’re all in Texas and Zach I love the parts by the way I like to focus on Texas for a moment and and since you’re really familiar with with what’s going on with a business in Congress are in Texas what is your thoughts on how Texas is Walgreen in your opinion to meet tomorrow’s challenges as an innovation centers which are motivation and just what are your opinions about Texas yeah well it’s it’s exciting to me because obviously I want Texas to always be on the forefront of not just innovation but of defending the country and and so it’s it’s a lot of things coming together I think in in particular what’s happening in in the Austin area where you have %HESITATION close proximity to fort hood and and all the bases in San Antonio and so forth you have more and more of the technology community that is not only moving but growing in in the Austin area but you still have the Texas work ethic the a favorable business climate in in Texas so you get a number of things and I should I should say you have the university of Texas and all of its enormous resources but but they partner with a and M. on stuff you know so you get a whole lot there together in a favorable climate and I think especially when it comes to national security that is very exciting for for for the future as Texas goes so goes the nation maybe a bit device there you’re going back to the the DOD looking forward again into maybe the next twenty six years where where do you think the DOT and and frankly the nation national security office so that the US can remain competitive and maybe more specifically if you were a great the DOT on innovation what could we get who %HESITATION I don’t know that that that that’s a challenging thing there are some really good things happening at within DOD and withstand the private sector that often does business with DOD on the other hand I still think it’s way too hard %HESITATION for companies especially small and midsize companies who don’t often do business with DOD to get to be a part of that system and to engage in and bring products and and services to fruition so I don’t know maybe were somewhere in the C. minus category %HESITATION overall but I I again that is compared to the neat and and and so to me I’ve I’ve mentioned this of a few moments ago never before in our history have we had so many threats to deal with all at the same time from the big strategic nuclear deterrence to dell the very small little germ or or biological threat that you don’t know if it’s natural you don’t know if it’s man made and you don’t know how fast it spreads but you got to be ready to deal with whatever that might be and and the whole panoply of threats coming from Russia China Iran North Korea terrorists or some unknown that that presents an enormous challenge and and speed is essential to dealing with those things in addition we’re used to %HESITATION the don’t regular domains of air sea and land but now we have the additional domains of space and cyber and some people think even information can be %HESITATION domain within itself and and so if you look at this matrix if you will of threats and and domains the only way that we can adequately protect the country and the daily lives quality of life it’s better of of Americans is to be as innovative as possible to to to be alert and identifying challenges and to have solutions come to the fore be deployed with people who know what they’re doing as as soon as we can and and and all of that means we can never be satisfied with the innovation at the department we still we’ve got to keep pushing because the threats and adversaries keep pushing and looking for for weaknesses and and we do %HESITATION all of that in the in the in the defense budget for fifteen percent of the federal budget and we in my view we protect everything else for the country for fifteen percent of the federal budget the lowest it’s been since I don’t a long long time that makes sense in that same thread a couple years ago you wrote about the correlation between needing a strong and vibrant economy to fund our military password stopped twenty twenty in our economy has been hit with a myriad of new challenges and there’s many funding needs and structure of society so how does that affect our military funding and what can be done about that so we take care of all areas yeah well I I think there this is a key area of where our national leaders and all include me others in Congress as well as presidents have not done a good job in explaining to the American people the inter relationship between the fans and the economy and and our quality and of of of life %HESITATION I I believe everything of in this country up from longer lifespans to improve standards of living to you know increase democratic participation ultimately rests on a foundation of a strong national defense and especially if you look at what’s happened since the end of World War two the decisions we’ve made to engage in the world to keep a strong military and you look at the progress the world has made more at none more than individual Americans that that that those key decisions have provided the foundation upon which and more much progress has been made so so the way I look at is in order to have economic growth in order to have continuing improvement in quality of life length of life all of those things you got to have a strong national defense as as a basis and then the other side is that much of the innovation occurs in that growing economy and we have to bring that in to the department of defense in order to defend ourselves it used to be the government could invent whatever we needed to shoot door our flyer what we can’t do that anymore and especially these days where there is this %HESITATION decoupling as they say between you US and China the importance of not only having a innovation base that we can depend on %HESITATION but seeing that it grows at the appropriate pace when you’ve got this adversary out there that throwing money and people and has have no ethical guidelines on what they pursue it in and that sort of competition we have to have our own economy grow so it really is chicken and egg we gotta have both and they’ve got to work together I learned a lot today and I’m sure our highest as well thank you so much for connecting the dots for us %HESITATION on your life your experiences and your contributions appreciate we appreciate you taking the time to chat with us today thanks for having me and thanks for what children thanks so much because thanks again congressman Thornberry for sure you perspective on DOT spending on acquisitions before we go we should note that after twenty five years in Washington representative Thornberry has chosen not to run for reelection so we want to thank him for his service to taxes in the nation as we’ve discussed he’s an impressive career and has made a lasting positive changes for the DOT if you do this episode please be sure to subscribe and share it with a friend or colleague and if you haven’t already be sure to listen to previous episodes from Texas or poor Tatian to learn more about the exciting work the defense innovation unit is doing from Texas the petition is a partnership between the defense innovation unit and found the media it’s created in Austin Texas to learn more about the D. I. you please visit our show notes thank you for listening