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What you’ll hear in this episode

• The merging of the private and public sectors
• Building bridges to allow the best possible innovation for our nation’s security.
• How guests Erringer Helbling and Doug Beck embody the sentiment “executive by day, superhero by night.”

Erringer Helbling and Doug Beck are two individuals with very impressive résumés. Helbling is the Director of Operations for Hawkeye 360 and Beck is the Vice President of the Americas and Northeast Asia at Apple, but that’s not all; they’re respectively, a Captain in the U.S. Army Reserves for DIU and a Captain in the U.S. Navy Reserves. Talk about work keeping you busy. Having worked in both the public and private sectors, they are able to speak the “languages” of both which they say is essential for the best innovation for our nation’s security.

Beck was in the Reserves and working in Silicon Valley during the birth of DIU. He stated that the U.S. was known for at least eighty years as a nation with the ability to bring the latest innovations in tech to the nation’s defense through the collaboration of the public and private sector but eventually lost it. The idea of the DIU was born to bridge the gap that had formed.

Dual fluency people are those that have worked in both public and private sectors and can help bring together the two different worlds for the purpose of innovation. Through their understanding of the ins and outs of both, they become essential to the innovation process. Helbling has first-hand experience with dual fluency. She’s seen what having those types of workers on a team can accomplish and stated that “finding organizations that can build that bridge between the civilian sector and the military is what can make our country extremely strong.”

Listen to the latest episode of From Tanks to Teleportation to hear more about dual fluency, bridging the gap between the public and private sectors, and how the nation’s defense can benefit from it. If you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe and share with a friend or colleague! If you haven’t already, check out previous episodes!

From Tanks to Teleportation is a founding_media podcast created in partnership with the Department of Defense and the Defense Innovation Unit.

Hosts: Dan Dillard, founding_media

Zach Walker, Defense Innovation Unit

Guests: Erringer Helbling and Doug Beck

 

Transcript:

this is a founding media podcast if welcome to our show from tanks to teleportation the cast will restore the intersection of technology business and national security with leaders of the defense innovation unit which is part of the US department of defense I’m your host Dan Dillard and of course I’m joined by my co host Zach Walker who is the Texas leads for the defense innovation unit your help is currently a U. S. Army Reserve captain for the D. I. U. as well as the director of operations for Hawkeye three sixty which is a radio frequency data analytics company she is also a graduate of the United States military academy at west point and she worked as the falcon nine rocket legs planner at space X. before moving over hawk I three sixty Doug benc is vice president for apple reporting directly to CEO Tim cook and leaving several of apple’s businesses worldwide he’s been at apple eleven years and previously led apple’s businesses in the Americas in northeast Asia but of course that’s not only does he is also a navy reserve officer and a civilian advisor to multiple secretaries of defense both of our guests or executive by day and servicemen and women by night in other words superheroes let’s get into our conversation

we’re honored to have you both on the show I’m excited to learn more about your backgrounds hearing to get started I’d love to learn more about your interests sounds like your passion for space technology service can you tell me more about the actions of many beginnings of your decisions when you started that career so I joined the army through west point I started when I was seventeen I initially did not want to go to a military academy my dad she was a graduate and I had all of my preconceived notions of what the military was I wasn’t until I was recruited to play soccer at west point that I decided I would be polite to my father and go for a visit and I immediately fell in love because of the people that were there and the opportunities and it just seems like such a great experience for someone young like me that wants to see a microcosm of America and so I decided to go I had no idea if I was gonna pass actually my parents had a running back if I was going to stay or not they thought that I was probably gonna leave after my sophomore year but somehow I stayed and I really enjoyed it I got to study systems engineering and decided I love this engineering things I’ll be an officer I wanted to do combat engineering so for those that are not as familiar with the army engineer corps we do everything from construction to explosives to your special engineering with data and I thought I’m gonna go to Fort Bragg and I’m going to be a paratrooper that blows things up and it’s going to be awesome and so I’m fully prepared for that and then I show up at Fort Bragg and they assign you to a geospatial engineering platoon and I think this is not what I signed up for I didn’t have to play with data I signed up to play with explosives and jump out of airplanes and so are are you tried my hardest to frankly leave the unit but I ended up staying and that’s when I actually started to fall in love with space and space data and the power of the data that comes from space to help inform decision makers to make the place safer and so fast forward to when I was kind of later on in my army career I was working at the national geospatial intelligence agency and I was able to see early at a macro scale how powerful space data can be and so when I what last the reserve component less active component I I had no idea what to do but I just knew that I wanted to keep the world safe and so SpaceX was a place I never imagined myself going to buy after talking to a west point graduate he said you know you should try it out yeah I know you’re having lunch experience Bernice experience in working with data but just give it a go and see and so when I went to visit space acts and I saw the factory floor where you see the engines being made and all of these things where it’s just incredible all of that innovation I could not say no if I was offered the job fun fact during my interview actually physically ran into you one by accident you never remember me at all and I thought well if I’m going to get this job it’ll be a miracle but I did and it was really fun so I never thought I’d be in space but I am how I ended up there so it’s just a turn of events to be honest

Doug for you your accomplishments are really humbling how do you go from like Yale Oxford to neighbors serve to apple and then serving to as a civilian adviser to our senior leaders in the military you know like so many knowledge I just want to serve my country and I I thought about going to the Naval Academy I would and I would have gotten a lot of T. C. H. E. L. as it existed back then sadly diminished as now but but I I want to surf in the beginning and I thought about going going it does yes when I graduated from Yale and I ended up winning this scholarship to go off to Oxford and so so off I went and then I thought about going out and working for that going into the military when now when I finish there and and I got this I’ve actually written my thesis on on the way in which large transnational corporations were at were operating impacting policy and the reason I did that was was because I did a little bit of work in between for the U. S. government doing trade with Japan and I was I was simultaneously incredibly impressed by that by the the talented people that I worked with but I also was was a bit worried that the world is changing so fast and global corporations had so much impact on the way in which international affairs operated but it seems to me as though there were many in the foreign policy space who who didn’t have a lot of deep experience with with with the private sector with how these big companies quickly technology companies work and so I wrote my thesis about that and I decided I was gonna be one of the people who kind of got it so I went off to go went off to go work for McKinsey and company was a management consulting firm and I was immediately off doing all kinds of incredibly interesting international things learning how global corporations thought I thought I did that for just a couple years and and then get back on my track of the serving full time in it it quickly became apparent I was learning so fast and it was gaining experiences I thought would be really valuable but I don’t wanna wait to serve and so I still so I I then the navy had talked to me about it was a direct commission program at the time and I I call them back and and I took time off we can do to go get commissioned and really my life has been to tracks ever since and and it’s it’s those two tracks and then completely central to the to the way my career is and my life is developed

here and I’m really curious about your current SpaceX what was that like and what was your favorite experience once you’re there it was just a world of invention and I really admired all of the people I worked with I was never the smartest person in the room I was surrounded by his brilliant people in every way and what I enjoy the most about SpaceX was of course the technology was amazing but what I really enjoyed was the mission focus everyone at SpaceX knew why they were there and it was to revolutionize the way we have access to space whether it’s launching a GPS satellite or working on how we get humans to Mars everyone knew their purpose their and so my purpose was to work with the one thing that’s not very transferable to the rest of the launch industry which are the landing like a hardware system and I was assigned the task to kind of lead engineering and procurement and mission management to bring this new designs to life and that was converting the landing like hardware from a two to three fight reuse system to a template review system and that was meeting eons version of let’s make the space domain very similar to their domain where we can take a launch vehicle and use it like an aircraft maybe every now and then we replace the tires we perform maintenance here and there but ultimately we should have access to space very similar to how we have access to aircraft and so that was an amazing experience just being able to see across the company how people work together to bring that to life was really cool so when I eat I had to leave SpaceX’s I need to get back to the east coast and I still joke to this day that if we decide to open up a a BFR operations center in DC I’m just going to go there and work on that but I was looking for an amazing company by it kind of meets the intersection of defense needs and building a completely new commercial technology and hawk right three sixty as by it’s a first to market radio frequency based you know analytics company where thank you the most valuable thing that the company has are these three satellites that are flying together in orbit around the earth and they detect in geo locate a mission radio frequency emissions on earth whether it’s satellite you know I mean if she stands like a satellite phone or an automatic identification system for a vassal or a push to talk radio we can geo locate that and so when you take that data and you combine it with all of these other sources that help us understand the world and its activity it’s really powerful and right now I’m the director of operations there and I I really enjoy seeing that intersection of we have all of these customers that want to make the world a safer place and how are we using this commercial insurable technology solve those problems so it’s been a fantastic experience from satellite commissioned to now seeing the not only the growth of the technology but the growth of the company during this time so

so don’t push it over to your twenty three plus years in uniform so the reserve since taking you to Iraqi to Afghanistan you got a bronze star combat action ribbon some pretty remarkable accomplishments in it of course joining a leading a secretary of defense top priority in the defense innovation unit if you could please tell us a bit about that time in uniform how it led you to apple and why you’ve chosen to continue this and have these as you said earlier these two different tracks on Nash for three reasons that that together make it so that even though I and I’ve loved every step of my civilian career there are times when it is easier for me to get a shot at four thirty in the morning to go stand watch to do something that people might think it’s boring than that than it is to to go and do something it sound might might be a lot more a lot more exciting get up an hour or so later engine for me it’s really been about three things that are all brought together by my purpose and and being some part of something that’s greater than yourself the first is just incredible people who are drawn to that kind of life and I’ve I’ve had the privilege of serving with some some true heroes people whose casual heroism every single day is is is just inspiring inspires me every day and I I just try to live with my live up to that that legacy of who those people are and what they do every day and I I’ve had the privilege of working with so many of them each the second is the is the dead sure diversity of of people and really the best of America coming from every possible walk of life every possible you know ethnic group every possible background instead of experiences coming together again in support of that purpose which is which is just again inspiring to me and and helps helps me try to to to be a better person be a better leader I can’t think of anywhere more innovative than that enjoy special operations task force in a combat area all from all different backgrounds all focused on the mission and coming up with new ideas all the time and and that’s something it’s taught me a lot so you ask you know how how you look at apple Inc and it actually was kind of connected to that the way I I got home from Afghanistan and at the time I was G. strategy officer for Charles Schwab and I love my job but but I I want to be part of something that was even tighter connected to purpose my friends so many of my friends were still down range and I was really struggling with what I was going to do and I got a call out of the blue from apple watch the second conversation was with him and within a few weeks I I sort of met that then everybody and had this incredible option I was already a big apple fanboy but based on what I’ve what I discovered in those conversations was that apple was a place that was all about purpose and all about trying to trying to make the world a better place and full of people who woke up every day I try to do that was just incredible opportunity and that sense of purpose that sense of of people from all different walks of life trying to come together to do something better themselves been really what apple’s been like from the that’s what it was like from day one it’s what it’s been like for eleven years and and I could be happier

you also there for devalues birth could you talk about how and why DO you got started in the role the reserves playing in the original version so the idea actually what came when but that’s about being around two thousand fourteen and you know if I’m for United States our our technological superiority our ability to bring the latest innovation in the fight has been at the core of our success in in war in our in our deterrence of war for at least seventy five or eighty years although we had the the the the locus of the of of the world’s greatest technological innovation was right there in Silicon Valley and although Silicon Valley had originally been born out of the collaboration between the public sector private sector and academia support of national scooter that’s how Silicon Valley got started before and then in the next tech sector that that role to places like Austin Boston off around the country all all of that was born in that collaboration we kind of lost that that connection and you could argue back and then that in some ways the US defense farmer was better tied it to the militaries of some other countries and it was charging our own X. factor and that the tech sector was maybe better tied to a lot of other countries and it was your own P. O. D. including maybe even China at the time and so the idea was you know we need to build that bridge and it is imperative I mean the national security security imperative the golden bridge and so that was with the ID was all about it so then vice chairman of the joint chiefs and I am a winner failed hold me out of my job working for naval forces Japan my reserve job and pulled me in to help help with that and from the very beginning the concept very much included the use of reservists because we have this incredible unique strengths in America that in the same way that we’ve got people who grow up speaking every possible language you can imagine is a native speaker at home but are Americans that’s a huge strength for us in in in in Cheshire security as well as it is in other ways we have people who live in both worlds and speed DO DVDs and speak you know civilian tech sector reads fluently nine people like Aaron that is a strength that we weren’t taking full advantage of because a lot of those people were they might be in the tech sector but they you know they might be they might be used to drive an amber after something in their research job and that was a strength that we want to find a way to take advantage of and so from the very beginning that’s been part of the vision for G. I. U. those people with dual fluency

does he have a ton of responsibility with both apple and the reserve role how do you manage your day well it’s so it’s it’s apple reserve role and my family and which I think probably needs to come first when that we’re talking about how how you manage all that and you know first first thing I’d say is that you know everybody’s got these challenges to deal with even people who who who don’t have dual roles that that that the challenge of achieving balance in in today’s society is is huge for everybody and everybody in uniform everybody who’s a civilian and and I think extra maybe for those people who who do both I guess what I’d say is is two things both my my team at apple and also my my my military team I’ve been incredibly lucky to have teammates who who respect my service with the other hand on hand who who just helped make it possible by by leaning in countless ways I am curious to see the up in the in the background you can both outfits in your car I I do actually I I literally although usually usually you got that one I usually carry the fatigues actor buying my NW used in the in the trunk of my car she never know when you’re gonna need it but you know it’s funny that you you mentioned that the uniformity and it’s because I think that’s a it’s actually there’s a there’s an interesting kind of analogy there for that for the whole contact topic of of of dole fluency in of connection and communication and building this bridge because the the way that that that uniform you know for those of us who the military we’re there’s a nervous not a shorthand that’s that’s in that uniform when you see somebody walk up you immediately know kind of what they do where they stand and so much about who they are but you also see all kinds of things about it so people who are really squared away in their uniforms just see that and that’s how almost everybody has occasionally when you see somebody who’s who’s not none there’s all kinds of shorthand that comes with that too that says news what else might not be right about this person right on the brand right it’s part of the brand and and there’s there’s so much that goes into that and and you know it at a civilian might not even notice that that rebate is hanging off to the side a little bit but anybody you know in the military sees that just like the person had to head smile and and on the on the flip side in it you know the result of that is is in a way when when my military friends can see see the way people sometimes are looking in the valley they immediately see that and here are some reasons T. shirt and whatever else and they’re like who is this person just not care are they not squared away and and that can get in the way the flip side in in that you know in in the valley people dress casually and they they don’t dress casually just because they’re lazy they dressed casually because you know with that that that reflects a focus on what matters right and so when when somebody shows up in you know it’s funny the by military friends show up in there there weren’t khakis they’ve been they’ve they’ve they’ve worked really hard to dress down wear khakis in talked insurance not stick out like a sore thumb and and you know words they think okay I’m I’m I’m dressed about as casually as I can the the this the the folks in the tech sector who they might run into say on apple’s campus might look at that and say you know that we don’t what does that say about them because because the uniforms that we were at apple which is whatever it is that you want to where it says it’s open it’s unencumbered it’s focused on changing innovation in not focused on how you look great and and when somebody shows up in a few to tie for example it might say incomers it might say conservatives and so that starts both sides off with a misunderstanding sometimes that that we’ve all got to make sure that we’re jumping in to find ways to bridge and that’s that’s why the door fluency people who can help to translate can really help

Hey Doug could you pull the trigger clan that between you know the the veteran that shows up in his or her pressed khakis and publisher to the skills that veterans have when they go to companies like apple or SpaceX I’m I’m really really glad you asked that question I mean maybe maybe I’ll just start by saying that he the incredible talent that we have in in the military I mentioned before that the incredible diversity of talent that that exists in military the the opportunity that we have in the military to have people from all walks of life come together in support of purchasing get just amazing training it’s not just the kind of functional training that you you might get military but far more importantly the training in in in leadership in in a self sufficiency in focus and teamwork in our in results orientation in just getting answers and that’s that’s true for for everybody who served in especially for those who who served it you know in any deployed capacity which is essentially everyone and that talent base is is one that are far experienced certainly in a place like apple is those people come out and and they they’re able to bring those those skills to to bear any new uniform now it’s it’s not always easy to make that transition because because there are things that are so different about the environment is I just talked about but but for those who cannot divest majority ten that that that set of skills and that and that energy makes those people the the best thinkers doers and and leaders in that in many ways that that that so I had to fill that you come in contact with him and yeah I think the kind of people that say that we should all want on our team and so you know I I I I I think you know so message to all those employers out there in Philly in space Mike my council would be if you’re not already finding ways to recruit from those pools Jewish and and you’ll you’ll be incredibly happy I think with the results for the impact on your business plus I also think we all owe it to to ourselves to society and also to those people and to help them figure out how to get those incredible skills online your civilian context

very well said so no I have a question for for both of you so what do you see as a top priority for the department of in fort and specifically either what can DO you do about it or why should other groups do something similar to what D. A.’s down the last five years in trying to leverage experts and expertise in new and different ways I feel like G. R. U. zero is not only essential building a bridge between Silicon Valley and the commercial sector but especially when you have reservists and those that can empathize with both sides I think that’s a lot of what you are you brings is it’s not just a blank check to commercial companies that might or might not work with the defense sector but it’s a partnership in a relationship and finding more ways to bring the defense side in the commercial side together is something that I hope not only does other areas in the defense department do but I just think in general I in general finding organizations I can build that bridge between the civilian sector in the military is what you make our country extremely strong into a differentiator and a leader when it comes to global security so I think that that act of not only incentivizing working with the government but building that partnership and relationship is something that I’ve seen has been extremely beneficial in having a mission impact and the way in which we do it by prototyping and iterating and working together has proven to be really powerful and building that relationship so I think that’s probably the number one priority is just maintaining that bridge in that relationship I think there’s been a really big part of thought I think that the primary focus of this is right in the national defense strategy so it’s not like I made this up but this this incredibly critical shift from twenty years of of focusing on on there is a war against warring on territory finally extremism which obviously is still a long flight and and continues but but the critical shifts to focus on on great power competition and ensuring that we’re in a position to deter and if necessary fight those those kinds of wars and the challenges represented by by the the evolution of a China there are threats from from Russia and other other kinds of threats that are out there that’s that’s job one India you plays an incredibly important role because at the heart of that competition is the ability to leverage the absolute best of our unique advantages a nation around technology in order to counter those threats and and did her the possibility of war and as as I as I said if if necessary went and India you plays a critical role in helping to do that I I do think it’s it’s it’s important for the defense department to be able to move really quickly now the G. I. you and so many other places across apartment they’re finding ways to to identify critical points in the nation that we also get much much faster taking those that those innovation and not just rolling them out in small numbers but then scaling it in a way that only the United States department of friends can do and scaling it without inadvertently slowing it way down because we don’t have time to slow down

I have a question for you both I’m just really curious how does the experience working as a reservist help you with decision making as an executive and maybe vice versa as well well maybe I’ll jump in and start on that the you know it’s hard for me to parse really the the what lessons come from where because I feel like Blake I am taking the this the skills that I’ve learned in uniform and I bring to my job every day in the principles that I use that that I’ve learned there principles of teamwork and leadership as an innovation and execution of integrity and and I feel like I take the principles of leadership that I’ve learned in my civilian career bringing my uniforms life every day as well and a lot of some of the same principles but with a different lands so I I definitely find myself trying to think about things from both perspectives and I I guess the the other thing that that tends to help a little bit this is one that that baby has come from my uniformed life in my civilian life there are a lot of things in in in the business world that that that we think about is risk and we think about as as as incredibly stressful and they are stressful but at the end of the day the kind of risk that we deal with in in civilian life for the most part unless you’re you know at a health care worker or a first responder it’s not real risk right it’s uncertainty it’s uncertainty about how things are gonna go how the economics might work it might even be uncertainty about whether you have what you know whether whether the company is successful whether people have jobs but it’s not risk nobody’s gonna die and in that perspective of for me at least having having lived through some real risk at times has been enormously valuable for me and I find myself myself at times putting myself mentally in a place where you know were I don’t always want to go but because it helps you to reef to to really gain that perspective which I think helps helps make better decisions and and be a better teammates yeah I just talked about dual fluency in tool and the scene and I feel like being arts a place like hawk I three sixty and being just boots on the ground operationally working satellite collections working data delivery working how do we prioritize the needs of all of our customers given this hardware set we have that has been extremely helpful when working with T. R. U. L. and trying to build that empathy of operationally it was a truly take to make this happen and make it not only possible but scalable to the rest of the department that has been I think the most helpful thing for me and also in turn being at a place like the are you I understand this broader ecosystem of leveraging innovation and trying to connect the dots of all of these different defense partners and what they need and how an entity like G. R. U. tries to connect those dots and tries to harness those mission needs and find commercial solutions to apply them to the problems that has been on I think the most impactful thing for me is every day I have that empathy when I’m operating

I’ve got one last question for you and it does deal with risk so you have over fifteen years working and living in Asia Shanghai Hong Kong Jakarta Tokyo amazing expense extensive type both in uniform and has a civilian you unlike most others understand this rise of China and the risk in the opportunities and threats better than than most others how do you think that we as a nation should be thinking about technology competition or cooperation with China I make sure that once upon a time I was a consultant so I I tend to think about this in the form of a of a two by two matrix on the one dimension is technology that is critical to national security absolutely critical to the future national security those technologies that we know are going to form the future of of our security competition and on the other dimension would be technologies that are critical to to our long term economic success as a nation and there are a lot of the the ones that are most most valuable are are on both lists so their upper right hand corner and these are things like artificial intelligence autonomy space biotech the semiconductor building blocks for so much of a of what we’re doing aspects of of of five G. particularly around kind of the infrastructure and and then the application of the applications that come with that and all that the software development that’s gonna come on top of that to take advantage of the other technologies and so what I’d say is first the imperatives about being clear about where which ones those are and then within those value chains because it’s it’s not everything about that that matters right the the the assembly of the of the thing isn’t what matters the the knowledge the intellectual property the critical materials the the ability to integrate those things the the those parts of the value chain what matters most and so thinking first about the technologies that matter most second about the parts of the value chain that matter most and then third as a nation in a uniquely American way just like Silicon Valley was originally built what we need to do I believe is have the public sector the private sector and again academia and that the raw research it happens in in science because so much of this is so cutting edge coming together to collaborate in in driving innovation forward and doing so within our country as well as we have our critical partner nations because there are other other very technologically sophisticated countries that share our values who are who are our partners and allies and we should be working together with them as well we should do all this in a way that is is supportive of and and and based on our unique American system which means elaboration investment focus and and connecting all that we even where the government is supporting involved connecting it to the free market in the end the joke of Rakan’s come competition that comes from the from the commercial fire which is why things like the I. you are so important and we should do it in a way that also reinforces and supports the open international trading system worldwide on which our whole economy is built Anna and which our our whole society is built on it really which American leadership around the world is is built around as well it’s so that’s a tricky thing to make sure that you’re doing that you’re building that focus and you’re driving hard on it and the only other thing that I would say this is maybe a caution is as we focus on the upper right hand corner we’ve also got to avoid creating importantly distraction or or worse in the lower left hand corner with things that maybe don’t matter so much

that’s a great point as we wrap up a personal stake thank you so much for the time you spent with us both of you the one question I’d like to get from our guests is that one piece of advice you’d like to offer leadership to both do you do you want to explore working with private sector solutions and to maybe if companies are looking to work with the DOT I feel like I am kind of repeating myself but I think the deal and that the is the most important thing by far because if we don’t have by then you of course have the easy answer which is we are inefficiently spending our tax paying dollars to solve these problems but I think more importantly as a team as a country if we don’t find ways to build that empathy and day to day work together on solving these problems where you have these two incentives on both sides for the company to flourishing for the department of defense to keep our country and our allies safe that is definitely to me the number one priority and that’s coming from a unique perspective of someone that’s it’s on the ground at the start up space company that’s trying to trying to help solve these problems so I would say that still I’m busy by prototyping and iterating and building operational relationships it is definitely the most morning to me and the way I see things for both sides the imperative is clear the our our our defense department I think his has woken up very much to the the criticality of of that intersection and so my my advice there would be our first effected to leaders across the department if if you are seeing ways that using technology might be able to help you with your mission and today you can figure out a way to get there using all the traditional processes don’t accept any answer and reach out push on it recharge the defense innovation unit or or to others in the system to try to figure out how you can get there entered by my colleagues in the private sector I would say V. R. that V. because it imperative is there the opportunities are huge to to contribute there are big opportunities from a commercial standpoint there for business but even more importantly opportunities to contribute to something that that really really matters and and that maybe leads me to the last point I made which is for both which is people want to keep people on both sides share common values about about this country and please don’t underestimate the the number of people the number of patriotic people who were in the tech sector and who are eager to find ways to to contribute obviously they’re also running businesses but eager to find ways to contribute to something larger than themselves that’s a lot of the reason why people waiting for the tech sector in the first place is because they want to be part of something larger themselves they want to be part of changing the world with technology and and so there there and for for folks in the tech sector that that there are people in in the defense department who who share your values and who who are eager to find ways to be innovative to use technology to further that mission and help help support all of our security in the future so I guess that would be my my advice if I was going to leave anybody with anything

great advice perfect thank you so much for sharing your deal fluency with us today helping connect the dots telling us what it’s like to be a corporate executive and a super hero on the side as a as a reservist thanks so much for taking the time to check today thanks again to Erin and dug for joining us on the show today we really enjoyed you need to learn more about what’s going on in the private sector and how you’re collaborating with the public from both of you and thanks to you both for your many years of service to our country it’s so fun getting to learn more from if you enjoyed this episode please be sure to subscribe and share it with a friend or colleague and if you haven’t already done so be sure to listen to the previous episodes from Texas or protection to learn more about the exciting work the defense innovation unit is doing from Texas limitations a partnership between the defense innovation unit and founding media it’s created in Austin Texas to learn more about the D. I. you please visit our show notes thanks for listening