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What you’ll hear in this episode

• Joshua Bingaman’s journey from music, to shoes, to coffee, back to shoes
• Diving headfirst into his passions
• Growing a business alongside a growing Austin

Not everything has to be meticulously thought through and planned. You can be passionate about something and decide to dive headfirst and figure it out as you go. That’s what Joshua Bingaman, founder of HELM Boots, did. The luxury shoe brand based in Austin, Texas was founded on Bingaman’s love for shoes and grew based on an amalgam of different styles leading to what HELM Boots is today.

Bingaman began by deciding he wanted to design shoes, and he did just that. He shared with us, that even though he didn’t know all the answers, he jumped in the deep end and learned as he went. He started with just pencil sketches and his creativity. From there, he got anybody’s help he could to get the business off the ground.

HELM was launched in a still-growing 2005 Austin. Bingaman first sold the boots at a party he was hosting at his coffee shop, and it was an immediate success. He attributes a lot of his success to having a community through many of the entrepreneurs that grew their businesses with the city, just like Bingaman.

You’ll hear more about Joshua Bingaman’s fascinating story of growing and brand and a business in the third installment of Founders of Fashion. If you like what you hear, be sure to share the show with friends or a colleague!

Host: Jennifer E.S. Millspaugh, PhD

Guest: Joshua Bingaman

Find HELM Boots on Twitter and Instagram

 

Transcript:
this is a founding media podcast if hello and welcome to another episode of founders of fashion I’m your host Jennifer mills spa today we are sharing an interview with Joshua become them of helm this hosting the show this week as Ross Bennett who was joined by Dan Dillard and Ryan Francis they get to know more about Joshua and how he started his journey into the world of footwear let’s jump in and hear what they had to say

good morning everybody Russ Bennett here with Dan Dillard Joshua being a man from home foods and Ryan Francis and you know it’s great to see this morning I’m happy you can make some time for this thank you you know you’ve been around in this city for almost a decade you know put in footwear all over the world and it’s kind of a cool thing to get to sit here and talk to this morning with these guys and thank you chat about your mind and how you came in as a creative from what you did prior to helm this that I want to talk about and then also getting in the home so very cool you want to talk about how you’ve got to Austin from LA and you know what you kinda have why you came here and how you started with the coffee shop and then got into hell let me let’s get back starter

good question I was I’m a libra most kidding I was sixteen that’s my birthday yeah service sixteenth holy when when were you born October sixteenth nineteen eighty three at I. ten ten in the morning I’m seventy nine you never know okay hi this is back to how you guys are awesome yeah yeah I I was actually born and raised in Oklahoma moved out to LA in high school towards in high school actually got a record deal did a few albums couple albums in LA yeah my brother crazy idea was like Hey we collected sneakers and you have a lot of what’s your home now you cut you coming on I got your good let’s open a shoe store in San Francisco that’s what he said and took over an old space in the mission district long story short started the store franchise to it blew up he bought me out because we’re about to kill each other and I moved to Austin it was just kind of like we’ve heard a lot about the city my wife and I were newly married and let’s go check Austin out and we more or less stayed we came and visited and it was far from what it is now that was owed to three that’s when I moved here may twenty third two thousand two have you been in insane asylums to even think of

questions going back in which is like this little this morning I was sort of this of this record deal so yeah yeah I was seventeen I’d started a band when I was sixteen it was a heavy rock bands and then after we toured and got some label recognition I ended up going solo we were all too young to try to close the band called let’s ban let’s keep that I don’t love the way all that ended chapter you with you so what I’m hearing is your phone your pastor from we were like seven nineteen top Manya it sometimes it was beneficial but a lot of time is exhausting like some people like follow your heart and then from the outside there like what are you doing when did you

when your heart lead you to to shoes and boots where was that I had always liked boots when I started touring I I always wore like older hiking boots and work boots and stuff before it was cool I mean we’re talking the mid late nineties so a lot of people kind of mocked me but I found some old hunting boots my dad’s in the grocery old Irish setters and I started rocking that stuff in my leather lace up yeah metal Brock yeah the older green suede of the grace way and I have virus souls I had some very sweet with some blue laces the vast colonies and yeah so I started getting into that and buying those and my brother are both little bit obsessive we we say we get it from my mother she’s kind of a mill to mark Marcus and Roman as always bata shoes come her love language so yeah my brother kept sneakers and kept him and then went little deep into adidas and puma as an ace only to cause and he just he kept going I I had some Nikes and I started buying Jordans and flights and stuff and so yeah he was he’s semi as crazy as I am he’s very well educated but so I came in I found a cool space in San Francisco he was visiting there was an old photo studio in the mission to the bed in the mission was the body of an it was twentieth in the lunch it’s still there for store hello the brand that I mean the stores that bought it still have their store that’s when they’re the most top in stores because the mission I mean it’s not unlike the side where it just blew up pretty quick so

so small in your passion for music and Marcus do this and it’s like everything so why is and should always remembers she’s had changed path quit once in streaming is because for most people it’s like starting one business or it’s kind of intimidating did you have any fears along the way about any other services calling it was going to go do it I think it started I don’t think of this often but it started because I have to just keep going get started in high school where I realized Hey I wanna play music going to be in a band I don’t want to be in school and I did I do good in school but I started doing correspondence classes and and test it out and I realize like Hey I can I can kind of make my own way also with business when my brother rang me up about that I’ve been in LA I had been doing what I was doing I kind of accomplished what I accomplish their but I quickly realized I didn’t want to be on the road or in the studio every day so it was your passion not your business right yeah when it started becoming like that I was like oh man I don’t I don’t know if I wanna wanna do it this way right I’m sorry what was the question was there any fear at all this is the thing other just like was it like any other types of cells that you figured out young said I can do this and move forward yeah there was anxiety but I don’t think I ever felt like I think I was going fast enough or I didn’t give myself time to have fear about it I just kind of saw this is what I want this woman to do so yeah that’s that’s what I did so all right

so your second business it was the shoe game and let’s get back to this you gain as like with my kids you know my son got a hundred pairs history I’ve collected match Jordan’s all that jazz sure you do the same again girls my girls got saying trump was that always your childhood passion like your five year old mine did you always love shoes because what I’m seeing is you went music shoes coffee shoes yeah and now your shoes are just coming after killing all the militants are like people are knocking off your shoes I’m not saying not in the same game is Yunis going again you’re the forefront of I mean come on ten years ago who was gonna rock you know a twelve inch ham people’s trunks and wacky with that leather in the hotel right yes I like was the tissue game that you always like was that what kind of always kept you kind of going through these hard times like what was your how did you get here I hate when I was younger and even up in through LA and San Francisco it’s always kind of been with me is literature and and reading and I went back to school in Santa Monica and then even when I got back here I kept trying to have a normal I transitioned to college only time doesn’t work you know I I would always come back to kind of an obsessive behavior of how much can I consume reading lies and I realize that happened with music and then I realized that happen with footwear and then with coffee and then while I was doing the coffee the two bug just bit me again and instead of opening another store here which almost did multiple times I thought why don’t I design my own my own mindset thought about doing that in San Francisco and could just never even come up for air so but I think more to answer question it’s it’s an upset it’s a I have to have something to fill this void of creativity but also of labor like of work I have a satisfaction or a sense of accomplishment by working till I can’t function and if I don’t do that then I get in trouble like booze or drugs yeah if you feel you wife hates that I work like you know twenty hours a day and I’m like sorry thank you only sleep for three hours hello yeah the design process
did you naturally evolve into designing I’m I mean you didn’t take any classes or you might of so you just figured it out put it on a piece of paper and said I’m gonna make this yeah yeah I mean to always have somebody that can literally draw doesn’t hurt but what I’ll do is bring six styles and I’ve I’ve now accomplished the process of doing it but I’ll say okay I want this tone with his heel cap on as some hype here what if we laid denim and the shaft and then man what if I put like a big lug sole on this or if I put a leather dress soul instead of a sneaker soul and it just kind of evolves into Hey let’s release that so I think it’s just having been around for where as long as I have but also wanting to do something that hasn’t been done without it being obnoxious that’s what I want to get back to him in each career path call it business that you started you learn something and it’s it’s this has brought you here yeah so

what did what did the shoot went on in the shoe store teacher about this now man tell me first of all I didn’t know shit about business because I had been like I said I mean poetry and fiction writing literature and the music the music had a business sense too it was like a weight legality stuff in contracts and per diem sin wait they pay me to do this now like that kind of stuff was or I have to do this to get paid you know to make a living wage I’m gonna work at a coffee shop at the same time when I’m not on the road like this mentality of like I have to make a living which I know sounds crazy but when you are entrepreneurial usually your passions are the work comes first and then you’re like oh there’s gonna be a dollar rent comes with it but yeah I I think that the I think that the process of the creativity even just with footwear came naturally I even like with music or with Arcturus things it’s just like it’s part of me it’s inside of me but business wise men at the shoe store I mean this whole areas memories that we have once I finally had a bookkeeper but I was spreading out Kraft paper on the wall and drawing grids for inventory and for sales in a note pad we gonna cash register I mean this was pre they just come out with retail pro everything was dos on the computers for retail systems so and I was just wearing that but finally hired a bookkeeper got into quickbooks and I mean literally it was jump in the deep end

what I love about this story is that and in the audience that’s listening it’s okay he’s just going to go you don’t have all the answers up front and then you just as I did it was cooler is what I was doing wrong looking back but I figured out along the way you have no answers zero are you thinking about as you go because that’s why now even since I’ve grown a business or to in like route on funding and things like that that I’ve learned all just one day at a time one step at a time one I mean it’s literally been people ask me that was your MBA from and how do you put this back together and stuff it’s like I want to book people and bought a book that literally said how to write a business plan like literally I don’t I don’t have any tricks up my sleeve because then I meet with these guys who were MBA from Harvard MBA from Princeton and stuff and it’s like cool right on my my hat’s off to you guys but they’re not usually the guys that go put butcher paper up on England’s Allah creates and sells shoes for that matter so but I love people and I love the community aspect of it like we were talking about earlier so that that always drives me where the people are at the core of it and my businesses are kind of just conduits to hanging out
this second thing that comes to mind as you’re telling your story is you’re jumping from industry to industry and we have to re learn the process was a lot you know right I was some others yesterday is for me C. P. G. like Mike you know I’m always like how many laws have yet to get process store right and for you it’s like okay I know what I want in the shoe but I still have a contract manufacturers are going to figure out this whole process works and then there’s a there’s a lot of work the researchers for side how do you juggle that with the you have partners that came in or did you we like I’m sorry for this on myself everything I’ve done that I’ve started I figure out by myself just straight cold off the bat and then the biggest part of it is the balance between acting like you know what you’re doing people like fake it till you make it I don’t agree with that as much as you could call it humility but I have to play a reality where it’s like I need to find people that know what they’re doing or have done this before and ask him thousands of or asking questions to put to me to leave him alone took to leave me alone runs the show man this kid now I’m not going to fax you this is one fax machines or on I’m not gonna fax you my PM els and I’m like okay I went too far

yeah really that’s that’s the aspect of learning in each field in each even with with helm like I’m an ants in this tumble who’s been there for seventeen years and I visited her before but this one time when a visitor us like you know anybody that does leather because she does textile distribution found the guy that owns a shoe factory went to dinner with his family it’s very kind of godfather either not that it’s not here but just started a relationship and then said Hey I have some drawings of some shoes I mean it’s literally that step by step yeah and then just eating crow until you figure out enough to be like okay I can do this

with the process am I definitely want to capture this is is asked in the people to ask the other two is willing to help usher that’s what’s rad if people and I’ve become that person work I think people actually call it consulting and I usually laugh at that I think you’re gonna pay me to tell you where I screwed up that ends up being invaluable alright dude if I could have had somebody tell me don’t do these ten things I might have still needed to do some of them for the process like I kind of really learning yeah I run into a wall to my head is not just bleeding it’s like cracked open under put a helmet on and then keep running into it I would have had if somebody could tell me what some of the pains were gonna be or some of the pitfalls and hi speed months I think that would’ve been super helpful because most most of the time when somebody ask me stuff I can talk him out of it for the sake of their sanity finances family relationships and if somebody could I don’t think anybody could talk me out of it but they couldn’t tell me where they failed in that that would help me but I was so headstrong on what do I do to get here I’m gonna get here and that indifference is the only thing that I realize isn’t common

inspiration first one of Lewis yeah let’s get into it Mr yes of the the coffee thing was what was the cafe was successful started coffee roasters doing that but about four five years in the cafe I was like I said in this symbol and I had a brother in law at the time was a really good artist and I had done the thing with him Hey let’s put these drawings together and everything I’m gonna go visit my aunt if I end up running into somebody and she find somebody I’m gonna pitch on these pencil drawings so this first one I’ve been in Israel shoot man ninety seven this is where it started because I’d have those work boots and my brother and I ended up selling a lot of work it’s at our store in San Francisco ahead of the curve but it’s just numbers and some people rocket like that’d all died in the he’s so in Israel I saw all these beautiful people girls and guys younger or my age at the time and they would wear these combat boots these military boots and at night we’d be out having dinner or I’d be at the hotel or whatever needs these kids would walk through rock in these big tall military I mean the most some of the most beautiful woman I’ve ever seen in another probably eighteen and they’re carrying automatic weapons and wearing these with their street clothes because it was part of their process of being in the country increase their education towards the end of their education so I was watching all these people and I remember being like man those boots are rad and I always loved military influence but I was like how can I take a blue like that and kind of make it meets addressed to and have a touch of a sneaker and it so that was when I was ninety seven and everything that happened from there I just started learning footwear with our store but with this and with the other personalidad they were all kind of amalgams of a whole bunch of different styles and a lot of people are like are you kidding me a lot of people being the ten people that I cared about their opinions but then once we brought him back and have this this big party at our roaster and they were selling and stag picked them up and we started a website it was all kind of snowball with again some some really big mistakes but this style that’s just what it was I found this canvas wanted to run it up the shaft from this old kinda they had a kind of a French dress to address you who this machine on this leather before I even knew what these things where it’s like Hey we have this from Holland we have this soul from Italy a leather dress all the white midsole thing was kind of my night to a sneaker that happen when we are trying to glue certain things together so I mean it all kind of fell into place he was a singer that was two thousand what what is this two thousand seventeen those two thousand five okay yeah

so all the strings flute drawings and sketches yeah most of those living to know computers it would like others as I was naturale ever use computers still to this day I use paper and trace them colored pencils we can look at my design all laugh it would be like are you sure when your kids didn’t do it’s funny you say that or we don’t have to go back to birthdays and all that kind of shit there’s a lot of things that you’ve been saying that a lot of things that I do in my business yes you and it’s funny you talked about how you can’t draw worth you might be able to draw now over ten years of looking into like me I can draw croaking out put a suit on American flag pattern like industry yeah but I can give you ten different fabrics and paint you a picture for for for yeah so to do so you know going out like you said going and seeing your family and having these contact or dinner meetings you know there’s no social media there’s no recording of conversations it’s handshakes and yes I’m a man of my word I’ll help you out kind of deal good idea with eighty six year old man in New York who’s been in the business like for five generations to it’s kind of same world and let’s be honest your bits are cheap there are no fences got total so average price of your boots are four hundred and one this food came out what were you selling it off six how much was it for six thirty nine schools so let’s just say seven hundred out the door roughly in a coffee shop okay in a related party yeah thank you now yeah with a WTF moment sell them out the door like crazy yeah I meant that to sound silly so do you think that price actually and you were in Austin Texas when Austin Texas in two thousand five was nothing that was just when the skyline started to change that’s just when you know breads are Kerr was able to get all those new zoning requirements in every building started going up and so do you think that it is a question because of my business and other early risers in this town that sell high end luxury goods do you think that the way you marketed this and soldier harden told your story and educated consumers versus going after dollars because there’s a seven hundred dollar boots right six and a fifty three right at a hundred and fifty dollar total range you know or fifty dollars from academy right you had a story mmhm how did that translate so successfully for you by doing it in a coffee roaster how would you make how did you envision making your business office six hundred fifty dollar billion coffee roaster to what it is now
man students say it is in that two thousand five the picture for everybody who’s just moved here in the past few years Austin Texas was nothing where we’re at right now was like crack resistance is then run down garages I mean gunshots shot yeah we ought to do some needles like it was like that it were progresses Ryan was all fields around it and now you can’t even see any for directions right six hundred fifty dollar bill two thousand five coffee roaster look at you now where’s your head at yeah I have to do I don’t it’s crazy because you guys are asking me I’m done enemies and answer questions but you’re asking me like some bigger ones from the beginning I remember being at my aunt’s house and having like a little I mean again we didn’t have phones that you can do anything on that right and wrong it’s changed significantly I remember building spreadsheets and saying okay if I pay this much for it if I want to be able to sell at wholesale then I need to charge this much for it just stuff I learned at the shoe store they were in the restaurant business what the market needs to be in the ratio to make whatever is going to be I think a large part to answer question not unlike other things I’ve done was relationships because I invited my fifty friends that I knew get it you know like Bobby Johnson Liz Lamberton her girlfriend at the time that I was real close with Amy and there was a whole bunch of people there that now are still successful in Austin that back then got it right because they were from the coasts or if they weren’t they were building something here that was more more like a metropolis were more oriented toward something that was more European bringing something Austin that wasn’t here yet and not in terms of like let’s chairman Cisco let’s invade Austin or New York did a it was more like Hey let’s bring something here that we think people that already live here will understand or people that are coming here will understand so I mean I love thinking back on that party where a picture Jill Mazursky and there’s just so many people that dont moody and there’s just so many people we have all the photos from the original party not so fun to look at that and think man these these people are still who make Austin yeah and we were just burrows then

Z. thank you it was the community then it just kinda help launch everything or is it was it wasn’t the actual story I think both the story was really big because I knew most if not all those people to the coffee shop okay progress and then we had all kind of sponsor different things but that was kind of a melting pot for creativity and let’s talk about what we’re gonna do well let’s talk about how to write a business plan to death because we were all creatives would come here primarily from other cities is kind of the just demands of coffee shops yeah it really was on me a nobody was known over here going to a shop here but we come across thirty five to go to I’m still on this side of the wall yeah them doing quotes in the air people told me that it was the walls don’t don’t go east of I thirty five so that’s why I went then and back then what what did you do to a sort of two questions when did it when did it catch fire and and on top of that how old do you think that happened and what I mean by that what was marketing like when you were out of a coffee shop I mean what fifty dollars one and No news of the boots hand hi so crazy to think back on it first it was a roller coaster understatement of this is selling this isn’t I got to go back to Istanbul again and again and again how do I what about these patterns I mean there’s so much happening at once outside of the coffee shop that I was running in the room the roaster that it started there was just so so many attributes that I think having moody even at the time and other guys were like Hey let’s put a website together for you yeah I just started a company with Kevin Whitley named gorilla suit and they’re like we will start to do this at the same time and Alain Garza who had started giant noise yeah it was all kind of this contact number our players of Austin that really helped him get moved in we were like Hey call my nextel flip phone and let’s go meet at this place I’m gonna open called the Mohawks it’s kind of in shambles right now the let’s go have a Jameson and hang out there and throw darts while Jack Sanders builds out the place was stuff from home depot I mean like that’s where we were at and I don’t look back on those who were so old school and everything but it’s like that’s what we were doing really that’s all too anywhere

yeah that’s great and yeah I mean I I vividly we have some photos of those kind of things where media bring in the high life like those big forty C. half and we work with all just sit there and drink so we I mean and what are you gonna do with this place so Dreamin talking and we were like I don’t know a lot of us were like honestly this could be a shit show or it could catch and a majority of what all of us did has caught so you think what I’m hearing and I think we can come to conclusion maybe I’m wrong but that your network by helping each other and growing as a community together whatever the asset was a bar a restaurant a coffee shop a boot company a real estate company in our hotel business you know I talk about people I heard you talk about it everybody in that community was helping each other succeed whether is a six hundred fifty dollar bill or a multi million dollar bar yeah that was being built by four dollar two by fours from home depot I R. seven Jamison now it was literally didn’t matter what facet of industry you already and you all want to help each other grow up yeah right is that what I’m hearing is that it didn’t feel like the reason this was so successful is your whole community that you’ve already helped was like yeah dude I’m gonna get my boys there that understand this stuff and we’re gonna come and blow this help you blow this business out of the water yeah and I’ll trade you boots because I’m a Buck right people

still the crazy thing is people in this community I mean I almost got emotional thinking about you telling the storm like I got chills because it’s like people are still willing to do that are you interested yeah I mean you just plugged all those people right now still a community and that’s a good thing and there’s another ten people I yeah it is it does seem sometimes bureaucratic or political but it’s really not because I can text or call or email anybody for anything and get it in the same day right and they know that from me right relationship and community and that’s crazy to think about that because I mean everybody that’s helped me with all of this didn’t have to do any of that why did everybody come to my coffee roaster and have aside the fact that Aaron Franklin used the parking lot for his right right I mean that’s working hard and with his derailleur wasn’t my parking lot he finished at our building for us and his band practiced in the space he’s a drummer something anyway how how and why did everybody come to that and supported and it was right one home slice was starting in Joseph and Terry all those people still to this day what can we help each other how can I help you help me help you financially city code wise relationship wise who do you need to know that you might not that I might I mean god it’s crazy to think about it it’s still like that because San Francisco LA New York you can be doing crazy shit every day that people are like you’re doing what you’re Startin what year and you know people you find people this town is surprisingly still small group and there’s the four runners and I don’t know how I became when I just moved here from San Francisco’s like I’m a starter coffee shop in this old dilapidated warehouses and I mean it just it grew from that because our people doing that here with their businesses I mean Liz bind that old ghetto hotel news I mean there’s so much stuff like that where we all moody with that bar there’s so many that I other there’s so many other stores Erin open in that are that’s an old gas station that we sit alone in him Hey Mike Hey I have this it was my grandparents something where it’s like can I just park this year and then weeks later there’s a line into the neighborhood and I’m like bro I mean he served as barbecue at our opening for the helm thing because we were all just yet we’re all just Ventura yes I’d be fun to look those pictures up again because they’re all in like flickr whatever was cool then I don’t know my space cooling if I can remember I couldn’t remember my log in if you put a gun this even exists by bought out my face but I don’t know

and how is that change now two thousand eighteen home or the city or value business your business and and and how a lot of social media and the way websites work now I mean it’s changed completely from selling out of a son of a coffee shop Hey James trailer yeah trailer now yeah you got it you know nice men out there that move your stuff your product all over the world let me yeah everything’s wrong here right and you’re still servicing all school and people want to send in their bid to repair them we repair we re soul I’d I’d literally interacts with Mallory and Brock and some other management with my touch everything I talk about everything I process everything yeah that’s a huge question though that you asked about how things change I brought everything to the US for half almost five years ago and that was there’s custom stuff and language barriers and court fees and things were changing politically that we’re changing things financially with importing and exporting I found out there were a few remaining shoe factories in the US it was the same thing I know you’ve experience where I literally called called called knocked on doors went to these factors until somebody let me in long story short and we’ve been with them now for years and doing all our sourcing and producing in the U. S. and we’ve now step into another factory no pun intended and we’re growing into these factories and a lot of outgrowing the right word but I don’t have anything with offer production anything against me about a mass climates are changing I’m looking at other factories again because our brain grows sadly it can’t be all U. S. space we’re not red wing we don’t own the factories right

and in the smart for you to have a factory over in like Spain or Europe that you can produce and service orders though yeah or Brazil south American clients little European clients just to save on your shipping in your feet well and the capabilities they have design wise my huge goals been to bring some of that original influence and and designed to the U. S. because all these factories make they’ve made a lot of the same things for generations writerly multiple generations on these factors in the sun’s gonna take over it so being able to make our own last and do some things were there like what the hell are you talking about it what are you doing are you want what on it or how we gonna do that in going there and spending enough time that they’re like okay he’s really gonna buy enough of these for us to excuse using our line for however long to make what we think looks a little crazy and here we are all sinners

well that’s a wrap my thing here the only thing other things you want to add before we wrap this up I mean it’s all you guys I feel like I’m you know overhead Cagney one ask you know to plug the audience with wherever they can go see what you’re doing on your website all your social media whatever you want to say so okay what’s helm boots H. ELM boots we noticed all that right helm boots dot com is the website our handle everywhere else across the borders helm boots and a lot like you guys were saying we’re in a lot of wholesale accounts but really we we’re focusing now on the website and our flagship store here in Austin on east eleventh the little small space but I will always work to keep it that that kind of warm we’re not here to be liked where blah blah blah we’re gonna take over the shoe market it’s always going to be like we might have a few of those we might do some pop ups but our goal is not to to grow real hard and real big in real fast our goal is to become a brand that is familial and in terms of like I don’t want this to be a flash in the pan which a lot of brands are these days it’s like let’s make this Dick around how the hell have we made a decade let’s make it last two three four five more decades and see where it’s at

love it word for word I appreciate it thank you guys enough for sure Hey for everybody listening go knock on doors make those phone calls somebody’s gonna answer you can do anything you want we always hear it so have a good day yes small communities your circle of friends it all makes a difference and can change your business I hope you enjoyed this episode of founders of fashion the founders of fashion team includes me Jennifer mill spot and producer Mariah Gossett and audio engineer Jake Wallace and of course thank you to all the folks at founding media don’t forget to subscribe rate and review wherever you get your podcasts thanks for listening