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What you’ll hear in this episode

• Constantly evolving technologies
• Innovation for our nation’s defense
• Delivering capabilities quickly to accomplish homeland defense missions

Technology is constantly evolving, and you don’t want to get left behind especially if it’s the technology for our nation’s defense. Join us for a look behind the scenes at the work that has been done for our nation’s security with the U.S. Air Force Director of Cyberspace Operations, Major General Angela Cadwell, and the Chief Technology and Innovation Director, Ross Morrell, of the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) and U.S. Northern Command.

NORAD is the bi-national command of the U.S. and Canada that’s mission is airspace warning, airspace control, and maritime warning. They’re also the ones that track Santa’s flight every December. U.S. Northern Command was established in light of the events of 9/11 with the mission to defend the United States. Both commands are singularly focused on defending the homelands of Canada and the United States in a constantly changing environment. The nation has adversaries that are constantly watching what it does, trying to find the nation’s vulnerabilities, and innovating technology and weapons to exploit those vulnerabilities.

Both of these commands have to constantly innovate to stay ahead of the nation’s adversaries, but our technology hasn’t necessarily kept pace with theirs. According to Major General Cadwell, there needs to be an acceleration in the cyber and data innovation done to keep up with them, but the commands suffer from having to utilize technology from the 1980s to detect and handle threats. Part of their transformation has been focused on the digital transformation elements associated with people, training, culture while leveraging technology for faster speeds.

One project of the transformation is called Pathfinder. Colonel Morrell shares that Pathfinder is chartered to revolutionize the command’s strategic approach to data to enable mission outcomes at the speed of relevance. They began this project with the air domain because air defenders are put in high-stress, time-sensitive situations of critical decision making, and to do this they’ve been using multiple independent systems and manually stitching data together to provide decisions. To solve this data capacity issue, the commands partnered with DIU to bring Pathfinder to life.

Major General Cadwell partnered with DIU prior to the Pathfinder contract while she was at the U.S. Transportation Command. The department partnered with DIU because for years they were focused on efficiencies and consolidating data centers, but while this was happening the engineers were also focused on efficiencies instead of maintenance on the water line that ended up bursting and cutting the power for several days. This led to a realization that changes had to be made, but they didn’t have the capabilities to do it themselves. They partnered with DIU to set up a cloud center in which 20 applications exclusively operate out of today.

Partnering with DIU has allowed them to create new solutions and methodologies at an accelerated pace to solve new threat problems. With Pathfinder, the command went from a concept to a contract in 82 days, and they took the prototype contract and turned it into a production contract in less than a year.

Tune into the ninth installment of the Defense Innovation Unit podcast, “From Tanks to Teleportation,” to hear more from Major General Cadwell and Colonel Morrell on changing technology, partnering with DIU to bring innovation to NORAD and U.S. Northern Command, what working with DIU is like, and the challenges they are facing.

If you enjoy this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a friend or colleague. If you haven’t yet, check out previous episodes of DIU’s “From Tanks to Teleportation!”

From Tanks to Teleportation is a founding_media podcast created in partnership with the Department of Defense and the Defense Innovation Unit.

Hosts: Dan Dillard, founding_media & Zach Walker, Defense Innovation Unit

Guests: Major General Angela Cadwell & Colonel Ross Morrell

 

Transcript:
this is a founding media podcast if thanks to teleportation the podcast restore the intersection of technology business and national security with leaders of the defense innovation unit which is part of the U. S. department of defense I’m your host Dan Dillard and as always I’m joined by my co host Zach Walker the Texas lead for the I. U.
today we’re talking with general Angela Chad will include Ross morale and we get a look behind the scenes at the work they’re doing with our nation’s security Jill Carroll is a director of cyber space operations the colonel morale is the chief technology and innovation director from NORAD and U. S. northern command yes is that morale to track Santa Claus in December but that’s far from all the to do list right over to the professionals to learn more about NORAD U. S. northern command and all the new technology they’re innovating and implementing for our nation’s defense
general Angela chan will in Ross morale thanks for joining us in Texas liquidation as billion I’m really looking forward to taking a peek behind the scenes of some of the work that you guys have been doing and involved in the nation’s security concern that some insight with our audience first question genet general you’ve been the director of cyber space operations for NORAD and the U. S. northern command for over two years now most people know Nora for like tracking Santa Claus every December we know it’s more than that so my first question is what is NORAD in northern command and why is it important to the nation service
so yes absolutely Nora does track Santa Ana and it’s hundreds of volunteers building thousands of questions from my kids and and the young at heart so that’s pretty exciting there’s a website that become very popular obviously during that time of the season what does your point Norah Jones no U. S. northern command there are separate and distinct commands NORAD is over sixty years old now it’s a bi national command so Canada and the United States and their missions are on their speech warning your speech control and maritime warning brand as U. S. northern command stood up in the wake of the events of nine eleven with the mission to defend the United States that said both of those commands are singularly focused on defending the homeland of Canada and the United States in any security environment whose only constant is that it continues to change and we have advisories were always watching us who are looking to find our vulnerabilities looking to develop G. two peas in weapons and capabilities that would exploit those vulnerabilities so work were challenged on every front to every domain so both of those commands have to continue to innovate in order to stay ahead
Carol Carol Carol thank you for joining us today so the house Armed Services Committee or has just came out with a future of defense Kaspars report and in that record it spoke to the need for significant technical modernization and DOT because of course we have to remain competitive with our near peer adversaries China Russia etcetera and what you’re doing in your ad is really making that vision a reality so it’s it’s really a pleasure and honor it for you to join us today yeah he was focused on transforming DOD capability and I understand that that’s exactly what you both have been doing it or at specifically with regard to NORAD and of course US north times cyber and data needs could you share a bit more about the process how it’s been going
yeah I know absolutely on your you know our our technology really hasn’t kept pace with our adversaries technology you know we have your adversaries out there claim that they will be the leaders in artificial intelligence by the year twenty twenty five and we are what we are going to need to accelerate in order to be able to keep up with that like so many organizations we have technology that dates back to the to the eighties maybe the nineties of the newest ominous it’s you know suffers from being fairly stove piped data and in many cases our operators have to look at up to eight different mission systems and and do the aggregation in their brains are in the middle of the high stress very fast which kind of mission like a nine eleven is that right you only have minutes to figure out detected there’s an anomaly figure out what you can do about it and engage in these four operators are having to deal with these this nineteen eighties technology that really doesn’t stop facilitate a threat that’s moving that fast and then you add on the newer threats that are obviously been being developed on the cruise missiles and hypersonic so we really do need to accelerate so we’re very focused really in three areas intimate awareness and multi grid double T. sensor multi domain and then that domain awareness aggregating that data with the intent that that give us information dominance in such a way that repairing the sensors to the decision makers and accelerating our that speed in an automated way as opposed to operators trying to do it in their head and still pipes are it with the intent that that feeds disturbs decision superiority are because we want to go sensor to decision maker to weapon system back to the threat in order to to deal with that on and moving out at speed so part of our transformation has been very focused on the digital transformation elements associated with with both people training culture but then leveraging technology to give us that pastor urged those faster speeds faster
I don’t work suit up Crim real engines part of general Kendall’s transformation nearly a project called pathfinder usually what pathfinder is and what the challenges but it’s all yeah yeah absolutely yes you are two pathfinder is is chartered to to really revolutionize our strategic approach at detail indeed do that in order to enable mission outcomes of funerals and it crossed or north calm as you just heard from Giancarlo we have multi domain missions so when we started this prototype calling pathfinder we start with the to me specifically with our air defenders as you heard our air defenders today are placed in high stress times critical decision cycles of for every year not only over the skies in North America they are currently using a multitude of systems that are independent non correlated and then they are required to manually stitch that data together and as you heard how cattle say them mentally process and then provide C. two decisions we believe that keeping our advantage is really tied to the velocity which we can transform that a bunch of data that’s coming up all the sensor mechanisms and turned it into a trusted precise and actionable insights and that’s what’s pathfinder set out to solve is indeed a capacity issue but at the same time we’re also using things such as automation and machine learning capabilities that can significantly reduce the amount of process friction and free up a lot of the track capacity whether that be in human capital our time or money it’s a pathfinder is foundational to domain awareness and without it we are at a significant disadvantage when it comes to information dominance and decisions and in a sense you only have minutes so every second counts you have to make sense yeah
you mention velocity any mention automation yeah these these are things that we talk about quite a bit India D. but not necessarily something that traditional organizations are really able to execute for whatever reason are there’s there’s many different different reasons could you speak a bit more about how you approach this really from a from a process perspective and and how this approach may be different than what a traditional did your position with you
yeah sure I guess the first thing I’d say is that we we went partnered with the I. U. to make this a reality it’s if you take a look at the threat landscape and you see the significant change in that in that landscape we realize we really need to have new solutions and new methodologies to really keep pace and soon we look at commercial the commercial sector right commercial sector has a lot of capabilities that they have that we can use to accelerate solving some of these new threats problems that we have so partnering with yeah you number one is probably just something that really meets there’s a multitude of other here is I think that we we we differ from traditional organizational structure in terms of how they develop capability to deliver capability there’s a three if you don’t mind at all like to kind of focus on the first one is is typically when you’re looking at solving the problem you’ll get us you take it from a systems approach on the genesis of pathfinder is is really harnessing the power two we do not want to go out and replace the system we did not set out to build a system what we set out to do is to tap into the existing sensor networks into pro and to bring in the entirety of the dataset from those existing sensor networks and and once we brought that data set into the ecosystem you are intent there was to then provided in rich it and provided to the air operators should that be they can you defend the skies of North America so ingesting it was really the first the first piece of it what we went further than that right ingesting and storing is is is one thing what we what we’re really doing is really trying to do to us you were ingesting idea we’re cleansing idea we’re tagging idea interrogating it you’re reading it and then making it available through there the Richmond that I just talked about and providing it to
the second thing I think I would I would mention is our organizational construct inch in structure of how we compose the team some of your account on I. R. R. cyber operators technologists and we realize that we would use commercial technology to really leap forward however without having the operator S. as a pivotal point or is a is a permanent part of the team you know we could move faster we can deliver capability but we probably would not derive maximum operational value so we we invented the the defenders in our team from idea generation to co creation of the set’s success outcomes of the prototype and then as well as a permanent member of our continuing team as we moved out of our prototype phase and now moves into production defenders are driving this requirement in their driving this capability I guess not the thirty second I would talk to you is is what what we’re doing is is a software defined enterprise or start software defined architecture into we realize that we’re starting with the error to me but that we would probably quickly us us scale to other domains because of the mission sets of NORAD north on so what we need is we needed a flexible architecture that was scalable and repeatable two we look at industry industry does lots of software defined deployments it capabilities today so our our entire a concept in our delivery is coke so whether that be infrastructure compliance governance security or architect architectural design it’s all coke in with that it enables it excel rates are our ability to deliver capability from the white board to the warfighter the last the last thing I’ll just close on this is is for us learning fast is is a core competency so again going back to the software defined a modeling were able to get speed and scale of the able to take hypothesis test them refine them and then redeploy them at at the speed of relevance is like talk about despite a line
here you know you mentioned having operators with us from day one I mean they’re even part of the assessment of the various data vendors that we took a look at but by having the operators physically with us I mean that literally have been assigned here to Colorado springs there was there was by and from the beginning it wasn’t that the cyber guys built some awesome things right over the fence and hope that the operators would want to use it they were part of it from the very beginning and that sucked in the entire leadership chain all the way up through three and four star levels so it it added speed to the iterations that you’re going through and we I mean you guys have already got a deployed on the sector floors already and they were well they were there it should have the capability because it’s been a part of it they were excited about it so I was there was a key component
you mentioned us part of pathfinder recently complete a prototype of the you that was awarded a production contract can you tell us about that moves this prototype and how it fit the broader pathfinder effort yeah yeah sure the suit so you correct so we started we started the effort about well a little over a year ago in terms of what we want on contract from a prototype perspective in again as I said the the initial prototype was focused on the drove me into we did that prototype for a year with the domain as as the core capability into if you start looking at how we’re rethinking how we think about homeland defense we take here to Maine and now we want to scale it and bring it into you multi domain in silver finder really was focused on the air go me and the prototype so now that we’re in production we are we are looking at other domains or bringing on other T. product teams will be core verticals to look at some of the other two main detox and that’s in an organization that we we call into acts of which pathfinder is is core to that in which feeds into into that process one one thing I’d like to say that was that you’re partnering with the are you in in doing this prototype for us young was huge we went from a concept to a contract with the are you in eighty two dates well and then we took that prototype contract and we turned it into a production contract less than a year the suit suit the those things impact that prototyping effort now I’m moving into production on their side but now we’re able to take that same model we’re still able to use the software to find that code infrastructure architect we were flying into other domains as well that’s really wonderful to hear about that that philosophy that we mentioned earlier eighty two days and not just a fast contract but also being able to take user centered design bringing the are meant to really figure out exactly what it is that’s needed you really need both of those things together and I and I think that’s that’s how you realize the success that it sounds like you’ve you’ve had no joke
I hope this isn’t your first time partnering with the defense innovation unit you partnered with us back when you’re at the U. S. transportation command and if you could love to hear a bit more about that experience with a product was like and and most importantly what what made you a repeat customer all right that’s actually scar tissue not to deny you the hard but being the experience that prompted us to tend to try to pair up and and I have the skills and ultimately successful with yeah you are but you know for many years the department hi I’ve been very focused on efficiency and had been consolidating data centers all right so the idea was you free up servers in multiple locations you get him into one spot well it’s fun yes for example the civil engineers were also doing efficiencies and maybe not maintaining the water line that then exploded and then killed the power to your entire data center for several days we now were had you know all of our proverbial eggs in one basket we were effectively dead in the water in our our units had to get on airplanes and flight at their two locations or in order to continue executing their missions so that that prompted us to embark on the journey on we we realized very quickly that we didn’t have a technical bench on the government side on because for many years that skill set had just atrophy R. as a part of that consolidation kind of work so we realized we were going to have to engage with industry and Ben Franklin yeah you had had all the right contacts in New given the problems that we presented to deny you what were there is a range of industry partners we ought to be talking to and so against your journey to a to what Ross described with pathfinder we ate we embarked on that journey with industry partners we just what up a cloud center of excellence are we we put out I think at this point they have some twenty applications are operating exclusively out of the cloud is N. they’ve completely shut down what was the on Prem instantiation of god keep bility and you know for us at the time and and and for the reasons of that six shots when we we Ross and I came here to NORAD and U. S. northern command and we wanted to embark on a similar journey we knew that we had a very strong partner with the with the I. U. and then we could be able to move fast and deliver capability very quickly R. J. to accomplish our mission chats our homeland defense missions
I’m curious what the experience was me since you didn’t have the experience two times now what was different this time around what were your impressions about what’s changed with the I. your last three years no I don’t understand that yeah suit yes it soon two two times around under the I guess I’m the first person and that the the problems that we were we’re going after work were different in terms of what we’re doing with what from U. S. transcom perspective to what we’re doing here at or at your smart so so again it’s not necessarily an apples and apples comparison because it U. S. transcom we’re looking at taking an entire IT portfolio in my greedy get into commercial clout using different design factors are different application of measures on intercourse when you look at that that portfolio U. S. transcom it it it’s huge and has a lot of different technologies in a lot of different architectures to so from that perspective we were we were looking at looking at doing the day transformation a little bit different than what we are doing this time in terms of the right north com we’re completely focused on the deed or not necessarily focus on those systems are in those applications however what I would submit I guess on both on both sides is you know it when your partner in the first time he always yeah you acts on it and it was U. S. transcom our first really endeavor to really go after making at this this substantial changes in technology and so I think you know they’re probably some of the relationships weren’t weren’t really deep is in D. I. D. I. U. S. side some of the processes were probably still being worked out on our side is the exact same thing right it would be a first time that we were going to do something like this and so you know there’s a young great great humans you know trying to make this this work but again you know we’re forging new ground and so I think on both ends there was a little bit you know the feeling out a just and and really it in terms of the infancy of of the you know where we are at and that perspective of you know this time around with the are you you know we came in with a really define problems we still do it specifically knowing you know that we would only be out you know doing this for about a year and so we didn’t want to do is you’re gonna come in within a massive problem and basically say you know we want to transform the entirety of every domain veto that we’re using across everything in the right north on sweets go to the to Maine so we came in with a little bit more focus and understanding and then number two I’d submit is that you know do you are you in the process is that the the depth and in terms of the reach and the partnerships that have been established with a lot of the vendors you know obviously over time that just just matured into so I think the process was a bit a little bit sooner for us as we went through but we also had a better handle on exactly what it is we are going a suit from my perspective that would be you know kind of the the difference in it and the two times
I think Ross just pile on a big measure was speak of because we were very comfortable with how it would play out how we would be engaging with you are you engaging with potential vendors on everything went a lot faster we could articulate our vision to leadership and their buy in you’ll get resources applied both manpower and money we could we could do that a much faster speed we got the buy in very quickly are we leverage D. I used expertise and contracting abilities and got her quickly undercut traction broad you know Bender said and then we learned I think to bring the customer in this case the operator we bring a man from day one that was a mistake we made in the first round as we brought the mid midstream in their in state they didn’t have quite the pie and we we learned that lesson very quickly they’re part of the contract negotiations we meet we have the data vendors going to the operators out sectors are learning from that first hand and so on just a media buy and now that we understood the process and and frankly I’ve had some great folks are like down that were assigned to the team from the very beginning and and his help shepherd us through us I think I just that was a contractor idea contracting he did you two days you know I don’t think anybody in the departments are done that great work
yeah we love the number please place of freedom to keep saying that and and tell all your friends he mentioned that you strive to be a learning organization and certainly yeah you it endeavors to do the same and it sounds like we’re really moving from maybe the first time is more of a customer relationship but this time certainly we are partners and that that is exactly what we’re trying to get you here with our our relationships is somewhat on the nose journal Cadwell you give a speech at afterwards which is the air force’s innovation initiative another great partners at the end use he spoke a bit about how our adversaries are investing in technology they’re investing in changing their doctrine and in doing so specifically to target and exploit US witnesses to stay ahead of them however you said we have to adapt innovate faster than they are now you mention our work together it certainly sounds like that that’s a lost city is is one piece of that but just in general could you give us a give a report card how is the US doing that regard yes so that the peace that does that Ross described about the pathfinder initiative where where he’s got capability on the for air defense structures on the floor with the operator using it in six months I think I mean that’s unheard of right to to go and and that’s going all the way back to the sensors pulling it into the data department reading visualization layer and then having the operator is already using it
the innovation that we that’s coming out of the commercial sector since it’s going to play this critical role in the oldies ability to stay ahead of our adversaries so is it as technology adopters of providers what are some of the biggest barriers that you see or your face to adopting them feeling commercial technology yes so we’ve we’ve it we’ve had to embrace digital transformation like like so many others that focuses on people training culture very important and technology all of which I think we struggle with is because the technology was evolving faster than the training was occurring you know my last training and that was in the mid nineteen nineties so unless on my own initiative I continue to read and go to conferences the government structure does not continue to keep me abreast of technology and so the constant touch points with the commercial sector and private sector is they they advance the technology is absolutely essential but then on the people side of the house you know I have I have folks in my directorates that have very probably very professionally and an exceptionally well maintained systems that date back to the nineteen eighties but now I need them to how to why you think about data how do I manage that data in a cloud environment how do I teach them to do data analytics and machine learning and some of those folks with some training to make the transition others are really struggling and show part of the people portion of that equation is we have to think about hiring the expertise that the department does not yet have it’s just not it’s not retiring is not what we’re training to yet we’ll get there US or having to hire directly from the private sector a great challenge and they joined our ranks or moving very quickly and then the last piece of probably the hardest is that culture peace are changing the culture of wanting to embrace the new as opposed to embracing what comfortable with because we’ve been doing it for decades and that is really at every layer but we it seems at least in my perspective my seat in the middle layer so I had to kind of that division chief branch chief level lines Hey I feel like I’m on the hook I know what I do right now seems to work I’m I’m a little unclear unsure of how that new stuff’s going to get it done but I still feel like I’m on the hook so I’m gonna go with what I’m comfortable with and changing the culture and going Hey guys there’s better ways that’s faster our dad skills you know what you mean and make decisions at a much quicker pace system threatens deals as read provide close to the command leadership on changing that perspective has been has been a challenge as is changing culture in any organization
for my last question I like to go back to something journal Carroll said earlier you’re talking about legacy systems and he made the reference that someone may look at the again the system that the government gave them that they had for twenty thirty years since I wasn’t quite look right and then whereas before they maybe had no recourse now they can look at the pathfinder is a yeah no that looks a lot more accurate and that that is such a huge changes the fundamental shift in our relationship with acquisition and technology and and if you excuse the metaphor it’s almost like you’ve you’ve been outside a Plato’s cave you can you know see what it’s like on the outside when you have the best commercial technology so what I’d like to ask so for both of US two leaders who successfully modernized and and meeting that house Armed Services Committee reported meeting the challenges that you you laid out an aperture account well you know what advice would you offer our other DOD partners who are perhaps still stuck in Plato’s cave that they know their legacy systems are giving them what they need they don’t know what their options are what can you do
yes all Startin Rawson Pauline are you I think ultimately you have to be willing to take risks you have to realize that what you have today is is insufficient for the future obviously you have to commit to garnering resources and at a time where you have to maintain the legacy at the same time you’re trying to apply resources to the new one now from a money perspective the cheats of the world are saying what you just double the bill up and having to convey the vision that says Hey for less on the back end of this effort for last we we have greater capability and then being able to sell that to you senior leaders are like an invite for me I’m I’m referring to the three and four star levels but the proof is really in success right they starseed and you’re sure that prop with the leadership team and and my fellow peers and suddenly everybody wants a piece of pathfinder or piece of that effort that’s moving forward and then there’s the momentum starts to build but it from the very beginning there’s always trepidation and that’s new I don’t understand it there’s potentially risk involved so I don’t know if I’m gonna spend Africa knows it’s gonna pay off in the end I’m spending more money I don’t know if this is gonna work so there’s all that kind of trepidation and and you have to really work to share the vision and then as the successes is merely demonstrated are deployed actually building share that story and then people get excited and and that momentum keeps building
yes I say it starts with executive sponsorship so you don’t have an executive sponsor you don’t have somebody who is pushing and not just not just saying Hey I want to do this or this look really this looks really cool let’s go try it you really have to have that exact executive sponsorship as you as you begin however I think what’s really key is within the organization and even external to the organization you have to find the people I com connectors are there people that had either trusted or they have really good insights are that influence within the organization or again external partner in it that has nothing to do with the physician or duty title or rank right it has it has to do with those people that actually can get out and actually make things happen so yes if you can connect those people you have executive sponsorship and then if you can get those people in the organization and then you can start you can start building and and the driving some of those SuccessFactors I think that it that is critical for any organization that’s trying to do any type of transformation the next piece I would say is you know you need to produce prototypes and not power we you know buzz words look really nice on a power point slides the drive really no operational you know unless you’re demonstrating what it can be and then so you have to have the second sponsorship to go out to be able to do some of these things about what you can demonstrate what can be a you get well beyond the whole Hey this is what I can just show you a power point and then not the last piece I guess I would say is that your digital transformation is just not about technology it’s not for technologists right it’s it’s an entire organization that needs to be committed that needs to be driving force and and moving into into that
as a final question for you both I want to I want to change gears I’m always curious about the past people take for their careers or lives so going back to the beginning what attracted you both to serve I think growing up I probably watched it a little too much Star Trek will too much Star Wars and when I was a kid I want to grow up to be an astronaut on at the you know kind of need eighty stage which was when I was going to college I wanna hold you guys work in the military or the cut that was leading pass to get into the NASA astronaut program and white my parents are both engineers once electrical once someone’s hearing so I already had sort of the technology and in may and so on that’s what excited me and the house was flooded up going off to the Air Force Academy on and that’s thirty four years ago so right yeah yeah
for me well so my family my great grandfather my grandfather and my father all all served okay they were all army infantry I still I I always thought that there would be you know some some level of service that I would do I wasn’t necessarily sure if it would be in military but I I I certainly knew after after hearing stories that it probably wasn’t the army but I did apply to west point I have to go on record and say but yes it was here that was really sort of part of my family and then I I got an ROTC scholarship from the airforce and so that’s kind of where where where I went I don’t go to the Air Force Academy but but came into our teaching teachers right service yes yes that’s exactly right
well thank you both for sure and I learned so much this is been great thank you both for being on the show and in the work that you have done on national security yeah we want to say thank you to to DO you have been tremendous partners had we waited for the bureaucratic DOD acquisition machine would still be up to ten years from now and and have really completely messes right and been able to deal with so thank you to to all of you for the huge left really do you thank you both so much for joining us today thank you for nurse
The you can see things begin to general cattle in criminal it was amazing learning about everything that goes into our nation’s defense at NORAD nor come from the people that make it happen if you enjoyed this episode be sure to subscribe and share with a friend or colleague if you haven’t done so already be sure listen to previous episodes of from tenses importation learn more about the exciting work the defense innovation unit is doing from Texas in the petition is a partnership between the defense innovation unit and founding media it’s created in Austin Texas to learn more about the D. I. U. please visit our show notes thanks for listening